Joystick button 11 has a mind of its own

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Mophus
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Joystick button 11 has a mind of its own

Post by Mophus » Fri, 11. Aug 06, 18:30

In my joystick, buttons 10-13 correspond to a second POV hat. I have assigned them to strafe commands (up, down, left, right).

However, I noticed that, while strafing right, I could not make my ship turn. As long as button 11 was pressed, the joystick simply changed the view (i.e., look around the cockpit), it did not control the ship. While strafing in other directions, the joystick continued to work correctly.

So I tried strafing with the keyboard instead (d). And it works fine; I can strafe and turn at the same time.

So I unassigned "strafe right" from joystick button 11, and tried controlling my ship.

Pressing button 11 still disables ship control, and turns the joystick into a view control.

Button 11 is currently not assigned to anything in the control menu, as far as I can tell (I did not get any conflict warnings when I assigned it to strafe right). And yet it still works as a "look modifier".

Do I need to edit some configuration file to get rid of this behaviour?

- Mophus

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Post by BugMeister » Sat, 12. Aug 06, 04:51

what make and model is your joystick...??
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Post by Mophus » Sat, 12. Aug 06, 23:06

Logitech Strike Force 3D. Running the driver only, no profiling software.

It seems X3 is using button 11 (or "hold down button 11") as a "look modifier" (i.e., while it's held down, the joystick looks around instead of controlling the ship), but I can't find any place for a "look modifier" key in the configuration, and when I assign button 11 to something else, X3 does not report any conflicts (both for "Joystick button 11" and "Hold down joystick button 11").

In other games (and the driver's control panel), the stick always behaves as a joystick (i.e., controlling the main X/Y axis) when button 11 (or any other button) is pressed. The problem only happens in X3.

Are the controls stored in some sort of "human-editable" configuration file somewhere? Maybe there's some assignment in there that isn't listed in X3's menu (this happens a lot in HL mods, and the solution is to edit the CFG file manually, or bind / unbind the keys through the console).

- Mophus

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Post by pjknibbs » Sat, 12. Aug 06, 23:56

The files are in the Profiles folder in your X3 installation, but although you can open them in Notepad, I'd hardly call them human readable. I have no idea what setting in there might correspond to Joystick Button 11, and I'm sure someone else would have encountered this problem if there WAS a prior mapping for that button--it's not like joysticks with 11 or more buttons are especially uncommon.

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Post by Mophus » Sun, 13. Aug 06, 00:09

Well, it's not an entirely obvious problem. If you have button 11 mapped to something like "SETA" or "open comms", you generally won't hold it down while moving the joystick. You'll either click it quickly, or you'll press it while your joystick is centered. In other words, you'll never notice that it's acting as a look modifier.

In this joystick's case, #11 happens to be one of the directions of the second POV hat, and I happened to configure it for strafing. And, even so, it took me a while to notice what was going on.

The really weird thing is that X3 doesn't seem to have a "look modifier" control at all. So button 11 is doing something (involuntarily) that (it seems) I could not configure any key to do deliberately.

Anyone else here with a 11-button+ stick? Try holding down each one and then moving the main stick, to see if something similar happens.

Alternatively, anyone from Egosoft can explain what each code in the profile stands for, and if there is one for "look modifier".

- Mophus

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Post by Mophus » Mon, 14. Aug 06, 03:45

So, no-one chez Egosoft has a joystick with 11 buttons or more? Just try holding down each one while you turn, and see if any of them does this (i.e., turns the stick into a view control instead of a ship control).

I can send you my joystick profile, if you think it would help, but I get exactly the same issue with the default profile.

I'm using the Steam version of the game; maybe the default profile is different from the CD version, but I doubt it.

- Mophus

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Post by Martin » Wed, 16. Aug 06, 15:43

Hello,

I just tried to reproduce this.

There is one caveat when assigning buttons to functions in the Controls menu. If you press a button too long during the assignment procedure, the button assignment will read "Hold Joystick Button #11". Instead if you press it only shortly it should read "Joystick Button #11". Maybe this is what happened to you. Make sure that you only see "Joystick Button #11" together with the normal strafe keyboard key "d". You can delete all assignments and start over if you get the "Hold" assignment.

Hope that helps,

-Martin

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Post by Mophus » Wed, 16. Aug 06, 17:36

I think you misunderstood.

I don't have any problem assigning "strafe right" to button 11. It works fine.

The problem is that besides strafing, it also makes the joystick control the viewpoint, instead of controlling the ship. So, while I'm strafing right, I can't turn the ship with the joystick (instead, moving the joystick just looks around the cockpit). If I strafe with the keyboard ("d"), or if I assing "strafe right" to any other joystick button, the joystick continues to work as normal.

It's as if button 11 is assinged to "strafe right" and also to "look-at modifier". But it doesn't show any conflicts when I assign it to "strafe right".

I know about the "hold" difference. I also tried assigning "hold button 11" to strafe right (so "strafe right" was assigned to "d, button #11 and hold button #11"). No conflicts are shown, button 11 still makes the jostick control the viewpoint, and now it doesn't strafe right at all.

In fact, I even tried unassigning button #11 from anything, but it still works as a "look-at" modifier - as long as button 11 is pressed, the joystick controls only the viewpoint, not the ship.

And what's really strange is that I don't think there is any place for a "look-at modifier" in X3's controls. Or maybe it has a different name, and I just can't find it. Is there any way to assign a key to do what my button 11 is doing (i.e., while that key is pressed, make the joystick control the viewpoint)?

Should I look for something in the profile file? I had a look, but all the actions are represented by codes, and I don't know which one is which.

P.S. - Another issue I fout with button assignment, which can be a bit confusing:

If I assign an action to a button (ex., "comms" to "button 6"), and then assign another action to the same button (ex., "SETA" also to "button 6"), the game tells me there is a conflict, but gives me the option to "apply". If I select "apply", both commands are listed in the X3 controls configuration, but only the second one works. (i.e., SETA still lists "button 6" as a control, but button 6 only controls "comms"). When a previously assigned button is assigned to something else, X3 should remove the old assignment from the list, otherwise it's a bit confusing.

- Mophus

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Post by Zileene » Wed, 16. Aug 06, 21:38

I just did a test, and here too does button 11 indeed act as a strafe modifier.

I'm using a Logitech Force 3D Pro.

It isn't really an issue for me, since I don't use it for anything, but others might have a problem with it, like Mophus here...
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Post by Mophus » Thu, 17. Aug 06, 02:35

Strafe modifer? You mean look-at modifier, right? Or does it work as a strafe modifier on yours?

- Mophus

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Post by Zileene » Thu, 17. Aug 06, 02:53

Ermm.... Yes. Look modifier, not strafe modifier. :oops: (I was tired when I wrote that)

It's LOOK modifier.
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Post by Mophus » Thu, 17. Aug 06, 04:27

Okay, so we now have two joysticks behaving exactly the same way (same button, same behaviour). Both from Logitech, but different models. Can someone test a joystick from a different brand (there must be others with more than 11 buttons, right?).

- Mophus

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Post by trschick » Thu, 17. Aug 06, 07:49

I can confirm using a CH Pro Throttle... I set a button to act as Joystick button 11 and I get the look modifier behavior.

This could be useful - alas the view Y axis is inverted compared to normal flying controls... not sure if there's a way to change this...
(new to X3 and currently testing control configs before I get too deep in the game)

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Post by Mophus » Thu, 17. Aug 06, 17:51

Yes, it could be useful but not if you can't assign it to the button you want, or unassign it from a button you want to use for something else. :P

In my dogfights I have to keep remembering that I can only strafe left, not right. :)

BTW, another thing I noticed: if I press "w" and "d" on the keyboard, I can strafe diagonally. But, on the jostick, if I press POV2 diagonally (up and to the left), the ship doesn't strafe at all.

Note that POV2's diagonal (in this stick) isn't a direction by itself, it simply sends "button 10" and "button 13" at the same time (which are correctly assigned to "strafe up" and "strafe left"). Maybe X3 can't read more than one button at the same time? Works fine in other games, and in the control panel, etc., though.

Anyway, the main problem really the the button 11 look-at modifier, which clearly seems to be a game bug.

- Mophus

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Post by Mophus » Thu, 24. Aug 06, 05:36

So, any news on this from Egosoft? It has been confirmed with several different sticks.

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Post by Mophus » Sun, 27. Aug 06, 21:49

Bump. Can someone from Egosoft at least acknowledge this...?

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Post by apricotslice » Wed, 30. Aug 06, 02:30

Its a pity the options screens cant be displayed by keybourd and button, instead of by control option.

Then we could see that button and what is assigned to it.

Have you been through every other assignment looking for button 11 ? Is it possible that button 11 is normally assigned to something else, and you are just adding to it by putting it on strafe ?

I know from mucking around myself that you can put many things on the one button.
Last edited by apricotslice on Wed, 30. Aug 06, 03:06, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by Mophus » Wed, 30. Aug 06, 03:04

It's mentioned in the thread. X3 doesn't report any conflicts, button 11 isn't listed as assigned to anything else, it happens even with the game's default profile and other people have reproduced it with different sticks.

It's kind of pointless to hope that this game's bugs will be fixed when Egosoft won't even acknowledge them as such.

- Mophus

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Post by apricotslice » Wed, 30. Aug 06, 03:08

Why are you not using the profiling software ?

I guess thats the next step, actually use a proper profile and see if it still happens.

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Post by Mophus » Wed, 30. Aug 06, 03:21

What profiling software...? Why should I need any profiling software when the game recognises all the stick's buttons? Profiling software is something you use to make joystick buttons behave as keys, or key sequences, etc., and it's the source of a lot of problems (because then you'll have the profiler and the game both trying to read the stick's input).

I am using an X3 control profile, of course (you have to - even if it's the default one). But it's irrelevant which profile you use (or even what stick you use) - button 11 always behaves as described; it does what you configure it to do and it also works as a look-at modifier.

It's as obvious a bug as there can be. Easily reproducible, affects different sticks, isn't caused by any other software running at the same time, etc..

- Mophus

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