X3: Complex’s and Consumption: Understanding the requirements

[Storm666]

Not sure if anyones done this yet, but here it goes


In X2 factories were quite easy to understand how they fitted together, with they’re one for one ratio to make a perfect loop (now called a complex in X3). But with the variation in size of factories in X3, it all got a bit more confusing didn’t it!
Anyway the good news is, its not that confusing if you were use to the X2 methods, and for those new to the production and consumption rates of factories heres a little bit of info help you understand how to get the right quantities of factories to supply your needs and not over do things.


The basic old rule of thumb of one factory will consume the produce of another factory is still true as long as you stay with the same size stations, so a M Cattle Ranch will produce enough argnu to feed a M Cahoona Bakery, like wise for the L size,
BUT! two M’s will not provide enough to supply a L, here’s why

All stations that have NOT been tagged as M, L or XL (usually high tech) have the standard consumption rate as the old factories in X2 (15 ecells per minute per station). We’ll say these have a factor of 1. All the new sizes are just a muliplication of those old factories requirements.

M size stations are double a standard station, it has a factor of 2 (uses 30 ecells per minute, just like 2 old X2 stations)

L size stations have a factor of 5 (uses 75 ecells per minute, has same production and consumption as 5 standard stations). So 2 M size stations will NOT be able to feed a L size station!

XL, the XL’s so far are only Solar Power Plants, the factor is 10 (10 old spp’s), a nice number tho 2 x 5(L’s) or 5 x 2(M’s) will work with that no problem.

So to power a Argon XL SPP (10) you need;

5 M Crystal Fabs (5x2=10),
2 L Cahoona Bakeries (2x5=10), or 5 M size
2 L Cattle Ranches (2x5=10), or 5 M size
and 2 L Silicon Mines, 26 yield (2 x 5 = 10).
Total = 40,
And this lot will consume basically the equivalent of 40 old type standard stations in X2, just to feed its-self.

Now of course you want to add as many stations as you can to that set-up to make your money back, but how many is that?

SPP - Outputs
The MAX outputs of the SPP depends on if you are supplying your crystals internally (within the complex) or externally (from other factories or NPC using ships).

The production rate of crystals in a crystal fab is slightly below what a SPP will require at max, so this restricts the output of SPP’s.
Anyway the figures below represent the number of standard size stations a SPP can supply on a 24/7 basis if crystals are supplied internally.

M (spp) = 17 (using 1 CF)
L (spp) = 42 (using 3 CF’s but using L size everywhere else see note below)
XL (spp) = 85 (using 5 CF’s)
Don’t forget all Crystal Fabs are M size only in X3

If you are supplying crystals externally (or shipping extra in) the figures are;

M (spp) = 18
L (spp) = 46
XL (spp) = 93

So basically if we go back to the complex we did before and take away the value of the number of stations that power the complex 40, from the SPP’s output 85 (our example supplies the crystals internally), you will know how many more stations you can still power from your complex, and that’s 45 in our case.

With 45 you could make an additional 11 shield factories run 24/7 from that spp! Every single shield produced for free!
(11 shield, 1L + 3M cahoona, 1L + 3M Cattle, 1L + 3M ore (26 yield, would be better to find a very large roid and plonk a L or 2 on it tho) then throw the lot into your power complex.
Total = 44 (sheilds and their support) + 40 (power and its support) = 84 and you still have some energy to spare for your jump drive if you pop in someday.

Anyway I know I’ve made an already complicated subject even more complicated for some of you. But basically, if your really not bothered about getting the most from your complexes just build M to M’s and L to L’s and you’ll be ok, for those planning some really complex builds I hope this info and data helps a little.



Note: about L size SPP’s and M size Crystal Fabs:
If your building a L size spp into your complex you got a slight problem, the factor of 5 for a L class SPP, makes it hard to build a streamlined complex because we only have M size Crystal fabs, and two M’s don’t make a L, so you’ll have to use three M Crystal fabs, that’s not a problem;
If you use L size stations elsewhere (argnu/cahoona/silicon(26 yeild) etc) all three crystal fabs will produce at the rate of the available cahoona or silicon (which ever is lowest) which in effect makes your three CF’s consumption/production a factor of 5 again.
If you use M size stations below the Crystal Fabs, you can run the SPP at full power due to your over production of crystals (although you will also now be using more resources and makes it a totally pointless task to do! But it will stop the flashing station in your property menu).

[bladeuk]

That definatly correct?

Ive got 2 crystal M fabs supplying 1 SPP XL, runs fine, my SPP is full of energy cells, and thats supplying a 10GJ shield complex

Maybe to run at full capcity it would need 5, but running 2 will out produce;

1 ore mine
2 silicon mines
2 cahoona backeries
2 cattle ranches
1 10GJ shield fab

Oh and i attached 1 wheat farm to use up more energy cells but its still got 250,000 in stock

All using energy cells at quite some rate

[Storm666]

That definatly correct?

Ive got 2 crystal M fabs supplying 1 SPP XL, runs fine, my SPP is full of energy cells, and thats supplying a 10GJ shield complex

Maybe to run at full capcity it would need 5, but running 2 will out produce;

1 ore mine
2 silicon mines
2 cahoona backeries
2 cattle ranches
1 10GJ shield fab

Oh and i attached 1 wheat farm to use up more energy cells but its still got 250,000 in stock

All using energy cells at quite some rate

according to the figures (obtained in-game) then run thru Excell yes
your XL powerplant is heavily under running and is possibly almost idle most of the time.

[bladeuk]

That definatly correct?

Ive got 2 crystal M fabs supplying 1 SPP XL, runs fine, my SPP is full of energy cells, and thats supplying a 10GJ shield complex

Maybe to run at full capcity it would need 5, but running 2 will out produce;

1 ore mine
2 silicon mines
2 cahoona backeries
2 cattle ranches
1 10GJ shield fab

Oh and i attached 1 wheat farm to use up more energy cells but its still got 250,000 in stock

All using energy cells at quite some rate

according to the figures (obtained in-game) then run thru Excell yes
your XL powerplant is heavily under running and is possibly almost idle most of the time.

Is that such a bad thing when its full anyway, the start up cost will of been lower for this complex this way.

If I add more consumption facts ill add more crystal facts to speed it up, thanks for the info

[Apocholypse]

I have loads of self sufficiant complexs so yes it has been done but not quite what you've done there. You've done some nice calcualtions there, but your going to much on statistics than actual practise. You use one SPP XL, why would you use an XL, it's such a waste of money and time. 1 SPP M is enough to supply your whole loop and more. Before you say I have 5 self sufficiant complex's averaging at about 23 stations in each so I know on hand what it requires.

For those that arn't sure on complexs I give a good example in my guide
http://forum.egosoft.com/viewtopic.php?t=99274.

[Lordcd]

ofcourse it's not a bad thing, if it's always full then that means you can't even use up all the energy it produces so there's no point in making it possible for the spp to produce even more energy.

[Sandalpocalypse]

Right, since you have it built, there's no point changing it. But it is inefficient, if you had a L SPP instead you could've saved ~10 million. But hey, whatever floats your boat.

[Tritous]

SSP XLs are insane beyond insane. they have the capacity to supply several sectors with surplus. they are totally economy tipping lol.

nice calculations there though, puts into perspective what sort of amounts we'll be needing.

I plan to expand my SSP complex to include my big XL, and turn that sector into one massive power producing complex for the entire universe. I've spent some 300M so far with cyrow's mod, hiring mercs to take out rival stations without me getting blamed. doesn't always work, but there's not much competition for me in paranid space and that's still saturated....

people, don't underestimate the XL, it's just too big to sell the stuff.

[theKettle]

I would be interested to know how ore/silicon mine sizes and asteroid yields fit in to the equations exactly. For instance, can you stick an L mine on a 26 yield and get 2.5 x the output of an M on the same roid, or do you need a higher yield to provide the higher output? Or will an M mine on a 64 yield (26 x 2.5 = 65) do the same job as an L on a 26?

There was a sector I was planning to use as a major energy hub supply point, it has 3 64 yield silicon roids. I guess an L on each would produce almost enough for 4 XL SPPs?

[Merroc]

You've made the mistake anyone makes... you don't need a 26 yield roid to support the stuff... 25 will do .
In this way:
Name - number - yield
Argon Crystal Fab M - 5 -
Argon Silicon Mine L - 2 - 25
You'll even have 12 silicon wafers per hour excess .

For instance, can you stick an L mine on a 26 yield and get 2.5 x the output of an M on the same roid, or do you need a higher yield to provide the higher output? Or will an M mine on a 64 yield (26 x 2.5 = 65) do the same job as an L on a 26?

A 10 yield L-silicon makes just about the same as a 25 yield M-silicon.
A 25 yield L-silicon makes just about the same as a 63 yield M-silicon.

I hope that answers your question.
As a general rule, its always better to put an L size mine on an asteroid. You'll get much more silicon out of the universe.

[Tritous]

as a general rule you should only get L on anything you can. mainly for complex reasons: there is a really delicate and tricky artform to making complexes due to the number of node ends each station is. if you have to many single node stations you get a crash since they can't be added.

Almost all L sizes are 3 node, meaning you can attach them, and have TWO spare nodes then meaning they increase the max size of your complex by one. a lot of M sizes only have 2 node, so they attach and have one node spare and so you can create as many of those in a chain...but add a single 1 node station (most of the weapon fabs and such) and you cant add more. a complex hub starts with 3 spares. run out of node ends and the game tries to stick a 4th one on and CTD.

so yeah, stick to L sized fabs, and when making a complex always add the L sized support fabs first....generally speaking a high tech fab needs more than 1 support fab if you make a full loop so that keeps you fairly safe. this is how I made my megacomplex of ~280 stations in a 20km box ingulfing 4 asteroids and producing enough stuff to outfit an m3 every 40 minutes, an m6 every 20 hours and an m2 every 11 hours plus a massive production of lasertowers and ammo, spare shields and 5 times the amount of surplus energycells needed to run the 17 Large ore mines in the sector.

it can be done...the only thing that is over capacity there is the Ecells and the foods....I had to add loads in to make sure I had enough slots on the complex. I would expand it more but I dont think I can handle that lag again lol

[jlehtone]

Almost all L sizes are 3 node, meaning you can attach them, and have TWO spare nodes then meaning they increase the max size of your complex by one. a lot of M sizes only have 2 node, so they attach and have one node spare and so you can create as many of those in a chain...but add a single 1 node station (most of the weapon fabs and such) and you cant add more. a complex hub starts with 3 spares. run out of node ends and the game tries to stick a 4th one on and CTD.

Tritous, I think that you should get that into the Player Guides, (not to mention tech support).

Now, let me see. At most three tech fabs can then form a non-supported complex, like the NPC ones.

Suppose I make a complex A with one free node, and complex B with one free node. I've been told that when you connect two complexes, only one hub will remain with a docking bay. This seems to create a vicious trap, since the connection requires that one free node, which is (I assume) removed by the addition of the connection. That would count as -1 free nodes.

[Tritous]

oh trust me...do not EVER try and join two complexes together. it does something very strange and bizarre and usually ends up with a ctd if they are even moderate (3-10) sized. just keep adding one by one onto the first complex. yes, you can only ever get that 1 single sized hub with 10 docks on it, I can't help with that though.

[jlehtone]

oh trust me...do not EVER try and join two complexes together.

Do not worry, I have no intention. (My sig may explain why)

I assume that people, who make such a mistake, attempt to connect far dispersed asteroids into a joint complex. A way to overcome the distance limitations, (which are there for a reason). A step into the dark side. A request for demise.

[fchopin]

oh trust me...do not EVER try and join two complexes together.

Do not worry, I have no intention. (My sig may explain why)

I assume that people, who make such a mistake, attempt to connect far dispersed asteroids into a joint complex. A way to overcome the distance limitations, (which are there for a reason). A step into the dark side. A request for demise.

There is no problem with connecting complexes together.

If you can connect the same stations to complex then you are also able to connect them as a complex.

[acrox]

connecting complexes worked fine for me - also can be extremely useful in increasing the size of the complex (avoiding the max 5km range) so higher yield asteroids across the system can be added in

[Tritous]

fchopin, you are wrong on that one. It's to do with the way x3 will try and link the complexes. now say you have a complex that only has 1 free space... say a 10 large food fas and 12 hept fabs. complex = +3, food fab equals +1 each (one used, but that is replaced and one spare) and each hept fab is a -1: 3 + 10 - 12 = 1 in total...safe enough.

now if you want to join a nice big fab with 10 Large food fabs and 4 spps. that's +1 for each food fab and +1 for each spp and +3 for the hub... thats +17...wow, no problem right? sorry, bad news.

EACH FAB WILL TRY AND DIRECTLY LINK AT THE SAME TIME.....that means it's not a case of you lose the +3 of the hub and get +1 + 14 = 15. it's counted as what it really is.. +1 - 14 THEN, if it hasn't crashed, you get a +28 which gives you +15.

you see now that it will crash halfway through. but if you add them on eby one...you get repetitive -1, +2 which would be safe in this case. this is the reason I had to blow up 4 hubs before I could try and connect anything to my primary hub which became my megacomplex

[fchopin]

I do not think you read my answer correctly.

I said if you are able to connect the two new stations to complex then you will also be able to connect the two new stations if they were a complex.

[Tritous]

I read it right, that logic still doesn't work...

okay, your logic works, the game doesn't follow that logic sadly. I've had the case of trying to connect a 2 station complex to my megacomplex and that would CTD, but connecting them separately one at a time worked. if your main complex only has a value of +1 nodes spare, you cannot connect a 2 station compex to it without it crashing, but provided they aren't both end product fabs, you could connect them separately one at a time.

[fchopin]

Well if you give me an example of the factories you mean i will test this.

My testing so far is that if two stations can connect to complex then they should connect as a complex too.

It would be a big help to me if you can give me an example of this.