CC.xls V2.1! & FCC.exe V2.0.0.2 ("the old thread")

Riptide_NVN · Post by **Riptide_NVN** » Fri, 10. Mar 06, 08:37

Woops I goofed. I only have 1 XL SPP in the loop.

Yet it still is running low on crystals. Per that calc it shouldn't be. I think it must be wrong somehow.

The complex as it is setup now is below (fixed). 1 SPP XL. Again per the calc I should not be short. 100% needed resources on crystals.

[ external image ]

Is the calc broken?

Geggo · Post by **Geggo** » Fri, 10. Mar 06, 09:00

The calculator is showing you what is needed by the complex to run 24/7, even though it runs low on crystals (which is obviously due to XL SPP using 2.5x more crystals then is produced) it produced more than enough energy to run the complex as is shown in the energy production %.

The crystal problem will be gone after the complex fills with energy cells, as then the SPP only producess what is used.

lauvers · Post by **lauvers** » Fri, 10. Mar 06, 10:20

Riptide_NVN wrote:Woops I goofed. I only have 1 XL SPP in the loop.

Yet it still is running low on crystals. Per that calc it shouldn't be. I think it must be wrong somehow.

The complex as it is setup now is below (fixed). 1 SPP XL. Again per the calc I should not be short. 100% needed resources on crystals.

[ external image ]

Is the calc broken?

You need to check that little check box next to the export command then it will show you what you need to run at 100%.

Merroc · Post by **Merroc** » Fri, 10. Mar 06, 12:42

Exactly as lauvers said. The sheet now assumes you arent gonna buy the needed crystals to run your SPP at full speed. Instead, it now looks at how much EC you can make with the crystals you produce. Also its the same with the Ore/silicon, it assumes you arent selling the excess, thus lowering the EC requirements.

Check the little checkbox at the top to disable that feature.

Riptide_NVN · Post by **Riptide_NVN** » Fri, 10. Mar 06, 15:10

Thanks for the explanation guys.

Wish I had unchecked that to start with. It's obvious now I have two options. I can either buy crystals or ship my own to it until it reaches full stock on e-cells. Alternately I could buy some more crystal fabs and add them to lessen the severity of the shortage.

I'll check the box again and rerun some calcs to see what my options are. The silicon asteroid only yields 23 so I'm not sure how far it's going to get me here.

Merroc · Post by **Merroc** » Sun, 19. Mar 06, 18:46

I need your help people, has anything that relates to my sheet changed in 1.4? If so, please tell me what, and if needed ill make a 1.4 version..

Deleted User · Post by **Deleted User** » Tue, 21. Mar 06, 02:23

Not got Excel?

This should help

Here is a standalone version of Merroc's spreadsheet.

Refer to the below topic for the current version to download:
http://forum.egosoft.com/viewtopic.php?t=165356

EidolonsFury · Post by **EidolonsFury** » Tue, 21. Mar 06, 09:14

Hey Merroc, I figured it'd been a while since I stopped by to promote your spreadsheet. Actually, during my leave of absence, I see you've made quite a bit of improvements over the last version I was running. In fact, I'm actually going to have to read that first page again to refamiliarize myself with it all. Great job though, with each new verision there's been constant improvements.

egamadeus · Post by **egamadeus** » Tue, 21. Mar 06, 09:47

Gezz man, good work, much kudos for this, I just figured out what I need to support a SPP XL. This things works great.

egamadeus

FataleError · Post by **FataleError** » Tue, 21. Mar 06, 17:20

I like the tool very much, but where do I get the yield inputs (Cycle Time and Cycle per Hour) from ?

Another feedback, Teladium Foundaries requires Ore as well. Your sheets does not have this.

Geggo · Post by **Geggo** » Tue, 21. Mar 06, 17:31

Yield you get from the asteroids when you scan it, or cycle info from already built mine.

Secondary resourse on npc fabs, NOT needed on player owned fabs.

al_main · Post by **al_main** » Fri, 24. Mar 06, 02:27

One issue / thing missing with ur spreadsheet:

An option to tick to give the output using only what is in the complex, an option to not buy in extra resources if you will:

ie. I have a (poorly designed

) complex with
4xCrystal Fab M
SPP L+M
L+M food.

The spreadsheet simply tells me that i have too many crystals AND not enough food, whereas in reality I produce the right amount of food to produce enough crystals for the SPPs I have.

What I want to know is how much spare energy I ACTUALLY have and how many factories I can run off it, which I dont think the complex calculator can quite give me...

To calculate this it needs to take account that the crystal fabs will only run for XX% of the time (87.5% in this case?). And so less energy will be used by the crystal fabs instead of assuming that they are running at full.

Had a quick test and it seems that it does this but only for crystals into an SPP.

ie
SPP XL with 1 crystal Fab and 1 food pair produces 11160 energy
SPP XL with 2 crystal fab and 2 food pair produces 22320 energy
SPP XL with 2 crystal fab and 1 food pair produces 25920 energy

As the last one assumes you buy in the boFu to make it up to required level for crystal fab. Can you modify it so that you must tick an option for it to assume buying the extra for lower resources (like it does with crystals at the moment)

EidolonsFury · Post by **EidolonsFury** » Fri, 24. Mar 06, 03:03

you know Merroc, Al_main has a point, that would be a nice addition to your calculator. Then again, I also like knowing you're still working on this thing, and releasing new versions.

I'm thinking an option that takes into account that the factory isn't efficient, yet produces the things it needs, therefore it's output is calculated from its lower efficiency. So if you have a complex set up, yet you're deficient in an area or two, it shows you the information of what the place is putting out, at the schedule it can, not just showing what it would be using in a 24/hr cycle at full efficiency.

Deleted User · Post by **Deleted User** » Fri, 24. Mar 06, 09:22

Apologies to Merroc for getting in first, but
this strikes a chord:

If you are buying-in enough silicon and 'pre-food'
(eg beef for cahoonas):

Food potential production is at 87% of 'needed'
Crystal potential production is at 112% of 'needed'
ECell potential production is at 437% of 'needed'

So
your Food will run at 100% of their potential,
giving crystals running at 100% of their potential = 87% of needed:
0.875 * 1.124 = 0.980
so your SPPs will also run at 98% of their potential
= 57,951 Ecells / hour (not 58,942 / hour)

This is a fairly simple scenario, its far more
difficult to work it out in your head for more complex
combinations of resource shortfalls.

It is very difficult (impossible?) to do this as a
static calculation for all possible combinations.

Which is why I wrote the stand-alone 'simulator' (plug!

)

In the program you can set Crystals & ECells to 'Sell',
Food to 'None' (don't buy or sell),
(resources Silicon & Pre-food can only be set to 'Buy'),
then run the simulator and it tells you you get 98%
ECell production.
You can then add 'Product' factories piece-meal,
running the sim each time, until your ECell
usage matches your ECell production rate.

jlehtone · Post by **jlehtone** » Fri, 24. Mar 06, 10:27

al_main wrote:What I want to know is how much spare energy I ACTUALLY have and how many factories I can run off it, which I dont think the complex calculator can quite give me...

To calculate this it needs to take account that the crystal fabs will only run for XX% of the time (87.5% in this case?). And so less energy will be used by the crystal fabs instead of assuming that they are running at full.

But obviously you already know how to figure these out. I know that it will not help others, like a "perfect" tool would.

Part of the problem is that there is a loop. If there would be just 'production lines', it would be trivial to find the bottleneck for each line. Maybe self-sufficient complexes should be treated as two pieces: the self-support part, and the end-product part. Even that is an approximation, since the same food is used in both.

Merroc · Post by **Merroc** » Fri, 24. Mar 06, 11:15

Let me say two things as reply to this:
1) I assume you mean something like the "sell silicon/ore & buy crystal"-option. In which case I cannot add it. Since those calculations are done at the end (which is logical, since i need to know the full production first) and that means I have lost track which factories are in the complex (unless i check them again). Which in turn gives problems if you want to do this and have a Boron & Teladi Crystal Fab. So its almost impossible to include this.
I can do this, because there is only one resource (other than the minerals/crystals) involved -> Energy Cells.
2) Let me show you the ammount of code needed to do just the "sell silicon/ore & buy crystal" option. (or rather, what i need when its turned off):

Code: Select all

If SellExcess = "False" Then
    For nRow1 = 2 To 78
        If wks.Cells(nRow1, "AK") = "Crystals" Then
            AmountExcess = wks.Cells(nRow1, "AP")
            If AmountExcess < 0 Then
                For nRow2 = 2 To 78
                    If wks.Cells(nRow2, "AK") = "Energy Cells" Then
                        EnergyCells = wks.Cells(nRow2, "AO")
                        If EnergyCells > 0 Then
                            ExcessAdd = AmountExcess * 138
                            If -ExcessAdd < EnergyCells Then
                                Temp = wks.Cells(nRow2, "AL")
                                newEnergycells = Temp + ExcessAdd
                                Temp = wks.Cells(nRow1, "AL")
                                newAmountExcess = Temp
                            Else
                                maxExcessAdd = EnergyCells / 138
                                Temp = wks.Cells(nRow2, "AL")
                                newEnergycells = Temp - EnergyCells
                                Temp = wks.Cells(nRow1, "AM")
                                newAmountExcess = Temp - maxExcessAdd
                            End If
                            wks.Cells(nRow2, "AL") = newEnergycells
                            wks.Cells(nRow1, "AM") = newAmountExcess
                        Else
                            ExcessAdd = AmountExcess * 138
                            Temp = wks.Cells(nRow2, "AL")
                            newEnergycells = Temp + ExcessAdd
                            Temp = wks.Cells(nRow1, "AL")
                            newAmountExcess = Temp
                            wks.Cells(nRow2, "AL") = newEnergycells
                            wks.Cells(nRow1, "AM") = newAmountExcess
                            End If
                    End If
                Next
            End If
        ElseIf wks.Cells(nRow1, "AK") = "Ore" Then
            If Not wks.Cells(nRow1, "AO") = "" Then
                AmountExcess = wks.Cells(nRow1, "AO")
                If AmountExcess > 0 Then
                    For nRow2 = 2 To 78
                        If wks.Cells(nRow2, "AK") = "Energy Cells" Then
                            EnergyCells = wks.Cells(nRow2, "AO")
                                ExcessAdd = AmountExcess * 6
                                Temp = wks.Cells(nRow2, "AM")
                                newEnergycells = Temp - ExcessAdd
                                Temp = wks.Cells(nRow1, "AM")
                                newAmountExcess = Temp
                            wks.Cells(nRow2, "AM") = newEnergycells
                            wks.Cells(nRow1, "AL") = newAmountExcess
                        End If
                    Next
                End If
            End If
        ElseIf wks.Cells(nRow1, "AK") = "Silicon Wafers" Then
            If Not wks.Cells(nRow1, "AO") = "" Then
                AmountExcess = wks.Cells(nRow1, "AO")
                If AmountExcess > 0 Then
                    For nRow2 = 2 To 78
                        If wks.Cells(nRow2, "AK") = "Energy Cells" Then
                            EnergyCells = wks.Cells(nRow2, "AO")
                                ExcessAdd = AmountExcess * 24
                                Temp = wks.Cells(nRow2, "AM")
                                newEnergycells = Temp - ExcessAdd
                                Temp = wks.Cells(nRow1, "AM")
                                newAmountExcess = Temp
                            wks.Cells(nRow2, "AM") = newEnergycells
                            wks.Cells(nRow1, "AL") = newAmountExcess
                        End If
                    Next
                End If
            End If
        End If
    Next
End If

If done for every resource, it would be... BIG very BIG.

In conclusion. You're best of using Dave's Simulator

EidolonsFury · Post by **EidolonsFury** » Fri, 24. Mar 06, 11:28

but Merroc, you like huge lists of code. Remember back when a new version of your spreadsheet came out each day? Oh, those were the days.

Merroc · Post by **Merroc** » Fri, 24. Mar 06, 11:32

I dont mind huge blocks of code, indeed. But that isn't the biggest problem.

FataleError · Post by **FataleError** » Fri, 24. Mar 06, 12:56

Sorry to interrupt this discussion, but these things are all theoretical and good to know to plan your station, but how do I know when the station is at its optimum level of supply/demand in the game. Is there some function in the game to do this, or do I always micro manage every station seperately _

jlehtone · Post by **jlehtone** » Fri, 24. Mar 06, 13:46

If the station does not flash yellow (for lack of resources) and does not sit idle (due to full product stock) then it is running optimally.

egosoft.com

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CC.xls V2.1! & FCC.exe V2.0.0.2 ("the old thread")

Is this usefull for you?

Stand Alone Factory-Complex Calculator (and Simulator)