patch - *updates from BurnIt!*

Free Trade Inn · Post by **Free Trade Inn** » Fri, 3. Mar 06, 16:11

esd wrote:

Actually, the answer is "we don't know yet", not until the devs tell us.

I got a great idea esd!
Why dont you ask them

.........
........Oooh I am a stinker

Kraznor · Post by **Kraznor** » Fri, 3. Mar 06, 16:13

Free Trade Inn wrote:esd wrote:
Actually, the answer is "we don't know yet", not until the devs tell us.
I got a great idea esd!
Why dont you ask them .........
........Oooh I am a stinker

Maybe because he's not affiliated with Egosoft and just a board Moderator?

esd · Post by **esd** » Fri, 3. Mar 06, 16:15

Not to mention that even if they did tell me (if they know), my Non-Disclosure Agreement means that I wouldn't be able to tell you without their permission.

AssKicker#1 · Post by **AssKicker#1** » Fri, 3. Mar 06, 16:17

esd wrote:

Not to mention that even if they did tell me (if they know), my Non-Disclosure Agreement means that I wouldn't be able to tell you without their permission.

Couldn't your fingers 'accidently'

slip when you are typing a reply. then you wont have done anything wrong and every one is happy

strude · Post by **strude** » Fri, 3. Mar 06, 16:37

8_bit wrote:Bugs and patches to fix bugs are a fact of computer gaming.

It's kinda sad that though. Surely everyone in the industry should be working towards a day when bugs are not a fact of gamimg. Since I work in a service station I see it all the time. The price of petrol will skyrocket for 1 day and everyone will complain. It will stay down for several weeks and skyrocket again. This repeats until people get used to the high price, which then becomes the standard price. Now the price people were up in arms about 12 months ago gets announced on the radio as someone selling cheap petrol.

It's a similar situation here. Back before the internet, games didn't get patches. Not to say patches wern't available, but I never got one cos I had nowhere to get one from. AS the net grew, more patches became available and easier to get. Now when I buy a new game, I go to the web site and check for patches while it's installing.

I don't blame anyone for the need to patch. I can't imagine anyone aiming to release software with bugs, and therefore I know that all bugs are just mistakes. And I want them to be fixed. But if we, as a community of gamers, accept that bugfix patches are a perfectly acceptable solution to having bugs in programs, then bugs we will get. It's just letting publishers and/or developers say "everyone seems O.K. with bugs in software now, so we don't really need to try as hard to iron them out. We'll just release a patch and keep the masses happy". I don't want to have a go at any particular group, but when people are annoyed by bugs they find in their software, they should be encouraged to express their dissatisfaction, rather than just being told to accept it.

Kraznor · Post by **Kraznor** » Fri, 3. Mar 06, 16:42

strude wrote:But if we, as a community of gamers, accept that bugfix patches are a perfectly acceptable solution to having bugs in programs, then bugs we will get. It's just letting publishers and/or developers say "everyone seems O.K. with bugs in software now, so we don't really need to try as hard to iron them out. We'll just release a patch and keep the masses happy". I don't want to have a go at any particular group, but when people are annoyed by bugs they find in their software, they should be encouraged to express their dissatisfaction, rather than just being told to accept it.

QFT

The major problem is, people want something new. So they'll accept it half-finished and just whine while they beta test for the developer.

I put my foot down on DDO, I beta tested and refused to buy it due to the sheer volume of CRAP that shoulda been fixed before release and wasn't. I wouldn't have bought X3 back last October if I'd known it was in the shape it was in.

The only way to make gaming companies start to release FINISHED products again is to stop buying them at release. But that'll never happen because there is that group out there that always wants to be 1st and will take it unfinished.

Jack Hammer · Post by **Jack Hammer** » Fri, 3. Mar 06, 16:47

strude wrote:but when people are annoyed by bugs they find in their software, they should be encouraged to express their dissatisfaction, rather than just being told to accept it.

Many agree with you.

Hopefully the truth will set us free.

FIX THE GAME

Post by **Cycrow** » Fri, 3. Mar 06, 16:49

AssKicker#1 wrote:esd wrote:
Not to mention that even if they did tell me (if they know), my Non-Disclosure Agreement means that I wouldn't be able to tell you without their permission.
Couldn't your fingers 'accidently' slip when you are typing a reply. then you wont have done anything wrong and every one is happy

actaully it doesn't matter wheather u mean to give out information or accidently slip, its still in breach of the NDA and could get you into alot of trouble

The problem about saying if the beta patch is complatable or not is not possible, as things can change during the process that stops it from being compatable that couldn't possibly have been forseen.
Althou its possible the beta might be compatable, they have to give a warning just incase its not, otherwise lots of ppl would start compaining

meneer123 · Post by **meneer123** » Fri, 3. Mar 06, 17:51

I know little bit German and therefor I sometimes read the German forum. In the German counterpart of this topic, BurnIt did made some statements.

One is that they are still working on one big problem, but they can not find the direct cause, because it is hard reproduce. Secondly, he states that until now the all versions including the beta patch are compatible with the latest version. Finally, he says that the will the a new X-Universe News Bulletin soon, with the changes in 1.4.

hobi · Post by **hobi** » Fri, 3. Mar 06, 18:01

meneer123 wrote: Secondly, he states that until now the all versions including the beta patch are compatible with the latest version.

Be a bit careful here, he stated that up to NOW beta patch save games are compatible with what is considered as patch 1.4. However nobody promised that it will stay so.
There is a nice collection of comments by "officials" in the german section but there is also no date given for the next patch.

Hobi

meneer123 · Post by **meneer123** » Fri, 3. Mar 06, 18:09

hobi wrote:
meneer123 wrote: Secondly, he states that until now the all versions including the beta patch are compatible with the latest version.
Be a bit careful here, he stated that up to NOW beta patch save games are compatible with what is considered as patch 1.4. However nobody promised that it will stay so.
There is a nice collection of comments by "officials" in the german section but there is also no date given for the next patch.

Hobi

I said "until now"

not "until NOW"

hobi · Post by **hobi** » Fri, 3. Mar 06, 18:47

meneer123 wrote:[
I said "until now"
not "until NOW"

Ok you got me.
But you never can be careful enough

Hobi

Sixhitter · Post by **Sixhitter** » Fri, 3. Mar 06, 20:15

There is a nice collection of comments by "officials" in the german section but there is also no date given for the next patch

Would be nice if these 'official' comments could be posted here in english. If the germans can handle it I'm sure we may just be able to cope or are English pounds not as valuable to Ego as the Euro is?

BDStyle · Post by **BDStyle** » Fri, 3. Mar 06, 20:50

<I've posted my musings about X3 a bit so i won't go into it BUT, my view on info on a next patch is this.

1) I've paid for the game
2) I'm not playing the game due to not baing able to fly with more than 3 fps in certain systems (my system SHOULD handle it).
3) Soon I won't play it whether an uber patch or not comes out because there are other games coming out that will eat my time. Morrowind and quake wars being prime examples.

Now I am all for supporting ES but at the end of the day I don't have all the facts about why they produced x3 over the return. In my eyes THAT was the killer for me and X3 in general. All I know is for whatever feelings of loyalty and admiration I have for the dev's and their idea's I can't help feeling utterly cheated by this.

I love X and all its incarnations including X3, question is do I love X3 because of what it is or what I'd like it to be in the future. Then the next question is when I get to that future will it make be come back and play it over other things. I don't know the answers, I'm just going to have to find out by waiting.

The one thing I do know is that if the patch isn't good, I sure as hell won't buy the expansion. I WANT too, but my brain just won't let me.

Chestnut Stallion · Post by **Chestnut Stallion** » Fri, 3. Mar 06, 22:13

Yeah, I was uh.. going to ask the same thing.. why are the germans getting special treatment?

That's not cool.

esd · Post by **esd** » Fri, 3. Mar 06, 22:22

Chestnut Stallion wrote:Yeah, I was uh.. going to ask the same thing.. why are the germans getting special treatment?

That's not cool.

It's not special treatment. Egosoft is a German company, and so most of the devteam are native German speakers. It's only natural that the German forum is where they're most comfortable.

I'm sure they wouldn't mind someone offering to check the German forums, and reposting stuff over here in English.

hobi · Post by **hobi** » Fri, 3. Mar 06, 23:18

Sixhitter wrote: Would be nice if these 'official' comments could be posted here in english. If the germans can handle it I'm sure we may just be able to cope or are English pounds not as valuable to Ego as the Euro is?

I don't think so, just remember that the game was first published in english and not in german.
I am also sorry that people misunderstood me, there is is collection of statements but I have to say that most of the statements do not say much more than we are not ready. Except one where people have got the message that the patch is ready and will be delivered about two weeks ago - which has been proven to be wrong.
I am not very good in translating but I will try to translate a post of BurnIt from today. Please keep in mind that the post is an answer to other posts and is out of context here.

BunIt wrote today:

There are no clear infos because we don't have them ourselfs.
There is still a problem, we work on it and we cannot estimate when it will be finally solved because we mainly fight chance here (so much for reproducibility).

I am no fan of "might be" announcements - when I post something concerning patches/demos/addons/games etc. then this should be reliable information. As long as I don't have them I would prefer to say nothing because these "official speculations" are too easy misinterpreted, twisted or falsified which in the end the situation declines.

As you can read in the first paragraph there are no solid informations on the completion of patch 1.4.

To finish I want to announce that we send out soon a new issue of the X-News. Which among other things contains a summary of changes in 1.4. Also in near future we will offer a new playable demo of X3 for download - who don't have the game or likes to try something new can enjoy it.
[\quote]

Hobi

apricotslice · Post by **apricotslice** » Sat, 4. Mar 06, 02:31

Kraznor wrote:The only way to make gaming companies start to release FINISHED products again is to stop buying them at release. But that'll never happen because there is that group out there that always wants to be 1st and will take it unfinished.

But all that will do is force stores to not stock low volume products. They will get a few, no-one will buy them, so they will send them back or not order any more. when the products finally deemed finished and fully playable, the stores will see no demand for it and simply not get it in.

My local store has a single copy of X3 on the shelves. Over Christmas, they took them off the shelves because of the returns as being unplayable. They sold me mine because I asked for it firmly and had to go get it out of storage. Since people like me have been telling them to tell people to upgrade immediately to the 1.3 patch, they started putting it out again.

But its sales that ensure stock in the stores. No sales, no stock.

apricotslice · Post by **apricotslice** » Sat, 4. Mar 06, 02:34

esd wrote:It's not special treatment. Egosoft is a German company, and so most of the devteam are native German speakers. It's only natural that the German forum is where they're most comfortable.

I'm sure they wouldn't mind someone offering to check the German forums, and reposting stuff over here in English.

What about them appointing a German and English speaking Moderator, given the role of doing just that ? That way, the comment is semi-official, and no open to debate on the translation of words.

Post by **BurnIt!** » Sat, 4. Mar 06, 03:48

I'm trying to cover most of the issues mentioned in this thread, so this reply might get a little longer...

There's no special treatment for anyone here, believe me. As has been mentioned here, my statements in the German forum unfortunately do not provide much more information than what is already known - which is that we are still working on 1.4 and will release it, once we are done which will hopefully not take too long.
It's not always easy to synchronize all the forums on every post made by a developer - especially if one has got a lot of work to do, so please forgive us if we concentrate on that for official announcements.
(a while back we had a huge complaint-thread in the German forum because something was posted on the English forum first and there was no immediate translation for it, the feeling that there's a special treatment for "the others" seems to be mutual)

We are still fighting a remaining CTD issue which has to be fixed before the patch can be made public - I am sure you will agree, that releasing a patch that is meant to resolve the majority of technical problems but still has a known crash issue is simply not acceptable.
(it's been brought up in the German forum already so I'll mention it right away: yes, the game itself was released with known problems, but the "good" thing about patches is that this time we are actually able to take the time we need to make this one right instead of having to stick to a fixed schedule)

It is true that I made an earlier statement which indicated the patch would be finished almost two weeks ago - obviously I was wrong (I did mention that possibility in that statement though)
That's the reason we are so damn careful about releasing any dates - we are trying to fix things and somehow, something new comes up each time we thought we were done. That simply cannot be forseen and we are only left with two choices: ignore it (not exactly the best choice for critical issues like crashes) or delay the release and keep working (which is what we are doing).

As has been quoted here, we intend to release a new edition of the X-Universe News (it's about time) very soon - that edition will address the patch situation and a few other things (in multiple languages

)
[I'm sorry that it's been so long since the last issue. Basically we've been so busy working on things that we didn't even find the time to talk about them]

Regarding savegame compatibility:
yes, so far all (non-corrupt) savegames from any official version as well as the two public BETA versions 1.3.1 and 1.3.2 are in fact compatible with what is to become patch 1.4. There is currently no reason to believe that this will change until the official release of said patch. If I'd have to give a number I'd say there's an 98% chance of your saves being compatible. I'm sorry that I have to leave these two percent open but I certainly do not want to be the one who gets shot for stating otherwise in case the unthinkable happens

I hope that clears up some questions.

egosoft.com

egosoft.com

patch - updates from BurnIt!