Flak cannons should be restricted to turret use only, to be honest, otherwise they are just overkill. That, in turn, would limit them to the larger ships that normally are vulnerable to small fighters. The accuracy of them should be high but the damage per hit should be relatively low - enough to deter fighters and keep them at bay, but not enough to really pulverize them unless they foolishly get too close for their own good. That also would make them good anti-missile weapons, naturally.
PPCs should do more damage to shields (and components) and less to hulls, sort of like a fusion between a IRE and a Ion Cannon. That would give them a dedicated purpose in the large captial ship battles. As we know, ships & stations have absurd shielding but if you can get through them then their hulls are almost fragile in comparison.
Likewise, HEP weapons should be the reverse - low damage on shields but devestating to hulls, for finishing off large, slow moving targets once their shields are down. Thus, to be a true captial ship killer you would have to mix your PPCs & HEPs together for best effect.
The IRE should remain the same, doing equal damage to both shields & hulls, for fighter combat.
What would be truly ingenious (if it could be coded) would be a special energy tracking missile that, if it hits the hull, specifically targets & damages engines (like a heat seeker), or a HARM type anti-turret missile designed to blow out turret weapon systems in particular.
Finally, one modification that should have been in the main game of both X2 & X3 should be the effictiveness of the Ion Cannon. In the book it says this weapons disables a ship's shields & systems, leaving the hull intact. In reality, however, it only drops their shields and nothing more - I've never seen it actually disable anything on a ship (and I've pumped triple Ion Cannons into a target for five minutes straight). As soon as you let go of the trigger, the target begins to recover, nothing having been actually damaged. I'd like to see the Ion Cannon do what the book says - disable ships by actually damaging their components, weapons, shields, and engines. This should also have a significantly increased change of the target ship ejecting it's pilot, as a disabled ship is obviously a helpless one. Thus the high price of this weapon could be justified by the great potential for salvage. Of course, the catch would be that a totally disabled ship would be helpless and with it's engines gone couldn't limp along at more than a speed of ten or so, thus making getting it back to friendly shipyard for salvage would be a bit problematic.
[MOD] BlackRain Rebalance Release update for X3 v1.3 12.25.2005
Moderators: Moderators for English X Forum, Scripting / Modding Moderators
Unfortunately Nephilim there are only so many things that can be done, and really no point asking for things that egosoft needs to do themselves.
I for one don't think Flak cannons should be weak, I mean that is what their purpose is, to take down fighters and missiles. I suppose I could make them somewhat weaker, but I don't want to make them useless.
I think that currently the PPC's do enough damage versus shields, but do kill hulls too quickly. I don't think the shielding is absurd, it really doesn't take that long for the shielding to go down.
I could look into seeing how the HEP and PPC's could be used togethor to take down Cap ships.
The rest is stuff that I can't do heh, you will have to talk to egosoft about it.
I for one don't think Flak cannons should be weak, I mean that is what their purpose is, to take down fighters and missiles. I suppose I could make them somewhat weaker, but I don't want to make them useless.
I think that currently the PPC's do enough damage versus shields, but do kill hulls too quickly. I don't think the shielding is absurd, it really doesn't take that long for the shielding to go down.
I could look into seeing how the HEP and PPC's could be used togethor to take down Cap ships.
The rest is stuff that I can't do heh, you will have to talk to egosoft about it.
Great mod, games a lot more fun now. One bug/issue is with collecting cargo pods. When u order any one of your ships to collect a pod, they have a terrible problem. Most of the time just flying around the pod, not dropping speed to collect properly.
I noticed this problem in the normal game but only with my supped up ship, used one of the bbs scripts to super tune your ship. So I'm assuming the special command to collect pods doesn't factor in the new speeds of the ships.
Unfortunately this leaves the standard game unplayable, probably. As there is a cut scene of a pod being picked up but the ship trying to pick it up just goes round and round and round.... I got very dizzy.
I noticed this problem in the normal game but only with my supped up ship, used one of the bbs scripts to super tune your ship. So I'm assuming the special command to collect pods doesn't factor in the new speeds of the ships.
Unfortunately this leaves the standard game unplayable, probably. As there is a cut scene of a pod being picked up but the ship trying to pick it up just goes round and round and round.... I got very dizzy.
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DemaeRamen
- Posts: 414
- Joined: Sat, 6. Mar 04, 09:32
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DemaeRamen
- Posts: 414
- Joined: Sat, 6. Mar 04, 09:32
I havent seen any problems with ships crashing yet but that doesn't mean it hasn't happened, I will try to check on this though. I doubt that mission would be affected by the mod, if it is a plot mission then it is probably a scripted ship which is supposed to pick up the cargo, unless your talking about the crystal you have to pick up but you do that yourself so it isn't something that would be affected.
Okay I will shortly be updating this mod to Version 1.2. The changes I have made are the following:
-- I have increased the hull for all Capital ships
-- I have changed just about every weapons dmg
-- I have altered some of the Capital ship speeds, decreased/increased depending on how much hull they have
-- I also lowered the turning rates of all capital ships so hopefully it will have more of behemoth feel but still maneuverable
-- The capital ship battles should be much more intense now and will require a fleet to destroy them
-- Even Dog fights with smaller fighters should take longer and be much more interesting now
-- Missiles are far more useful then they were, in a lot of cases better then using regular gun fire
-- I have increased the hull for all Capital ships
-- I have changed just about every weapons dmg
-- I have altered some of the Capital ship speeds, decreased/increased depending on how much hull they have
-- I also lowered the turning rates of all capital ships so hopefully it will have more of behemoth feel but still maneuverable
-- The capital ship battles should be much more intense now and will require a fleet to destroy them
-- Even Dog fights with smaller fighters should take longer and be much more interesting now
-- Missiles are far more useful then they were, in a lot of cases better then using regular gun fire
Okay, I recommend anyone playing my mod to download the new version and check it out. If you are already playing a game with the older version, then you will not notice the changes right away because any existing ship in the universe will have its old values, any new ships however will have the new values. So you may or may not notice the changes for at least a little while. Okay, I am going to post the new link on the first page.
-- edit -- okay the links should be working, free file storage hehe!
-- edit -- okay the links should be working, free file storage hehe!
i havent installed 1.2 yet but ive now noticed a change in the economy, even though the distances have been increased between objects the amount of goods avialable is high, ive been able to buy L class ship after L class ship as many times as i wanted when ever i wanted.
And believe me i went through a lot of em trying to capture pirate sectors (im now broke in game heh)
I think perhaps less free traders and keep the activities of the pirates and khaak/xenon the same as it is when modded.
I shall now clean my install of mods (because i recently installed the security script and got a hang
) and start with a game of 1.2
And believe me i went through a lot of em trying to capture pirate sectors (im now broke in game heh)
I think perhaps less free traders and keep the activities of the pirates and khaak/xenon the same as it is when modded.
I shall now clean my install of mods (because i recently installed the security script and got a hang
) and start with a game of 1.2If there weren't so many free traders the economy would most likely be dying hehe. Give it sometime and I am sure there will be less ships as ships get destroyed, also, it is necessary to have all those ships to combat increased enemy activity. You can always use the Lite version, except the lite doesnt have extra xenon and khaak, I could change that though. Also, I think it is really cool to see so many ships and activity going on in the universe, gives it more of a real life feel, plus there is a lot more competition. Also, I think all ships should be available if your willing to pay heh.
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unfunfofmpc
- Posts: 300
- Joined: Sat, 12. Nov 05, 19:37
Only thing needing improvement is capital ships need to be slowed down dramtically. Every single cap ship fight ive spawned (1 capship vs 1 capship) has ended in death by collision. I'm 5/5 now 
. I suggest 10-15 m/s less than egosoft's default. Default wise the ships still collide, just less frequently. This should also help solve some collision problems with gates and such, until v1.3.
. I suggest 10-15 m/s less than egosoft's default. Default wise the ships still collide, just less frequently. This should also help solve some collision problems with gates and such, until v1.3.-
unfunfofmpc
- Posts: 300
- Joined: Sat, 12. Nov 05, 19:37
. I will lower the firing rate of the weapons a bit, but up their damage in proportion+a tiny bit more.heh, I like having the faster capital ship speeds, I haven't seen any collide, ill have to check that out. The extended ranges of the PPC cannons should make it so they dont collide. As for M3's, they dont survive 5 minutes of direct attack, I had 30 L's take on a destroyer and each M3 was not lasting 5 minutes. Were you using Flak cannons? PPCs are still stronger then flak cannons so if they are getting hit they wont last very long, the flak cannons take them out in good speed too. I could increase the dmg a little though, that isn't a problem. Destroyers really should not be that slow, they aren't even Battleships heh. I will take a look and play with the numbers a little.
--edit-- Okay i have decided to take some of your ideas into consideration and I have upped a little bit the dmg on the lasers but I haven't changed the speed. I don't see the need to change the speed, I think it should be fast fire. However, if you are using the PPC's against fighters, it isn't going to be as effective since the PPC's miss the fighters a lot, but equipping Flak cannons will be much more effective, I tested out the new dmg on the weapons and I like it a lot so it should be good. I am going to slow down the capital ships, not as low as they were but lower then I have them, so I will have destroyers around 100, with some being a little lower/higher but not by much. The Carriers I think should be a little faster so I will have them around 150 with some being a little slower/faster. The rest of the ships will remain at the same speeds.
Also, if you are just fighting one destroyer vs one destroyer, of course it is going to take a long time, that is why you are supposed to have fighters with you as well
--edit-- Okay i have decided to take some of your ideas into consideration and I have upped a little bit the dmg on the lasers but I haven't changed the speed. I don't see the need to change the speed, I think it should be fast fire. However, if you are using the PPC's against fighters, it isn't going to be as effective since the PPC's miss the fighters a lot, but equipping Flak cannons will be much more effective, I tested out the new dmg on the weapons and I like it a lot so it should be good. I am going to slow down the capital ships, not as low as they were but lower then I have them, so I will have destroyers around 100, with some being a little lower/higher but not by much. The Carriers I think should be a little faster so I will have them around 150 with some being a little slower/faster. The rest of the ships will remain at the same speeds.
Also, if you are just fighting one destroyer vs one destroyer, of course it is going to take a long time, that is why you are supposed to have fighters with you as well
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unfunfofmpc
- Posts: 300
- Joined: Sat, 12. Nov 05, 19:37
Do a 1v1 of destroyers in 'unknown sector' (one that is totally empty). With your normal speeds (150~). I guarantee you 9/10 battles will end up in a collision . The problem with PPC's NOT being decently effective against fighters is this: I am trying to balance the combat for fighters vs NPC capital ships, not just my own. Most NPC capital ships take a weird outfit of weaponry, but I have not seen any taking real AA weapons, so I figured id just make each weapon pretty decent against fighters, but not overkill. 25 M3s killed a titan. 2 survived . I think that's pretty decent, against a fully equipped titan.
Now, if NPC destroyers were setup to equip themselves accordingly during a spawn, then combat could be made a lot more interesting. That requires work from egosoft, though. The turret count allowed on a destroyer would have to be upped to allow for strategically placed flak cannons and such. Take a look at ships from Freespace 2. They did an incredible job of balancing ships and made combat incredibly fun. If egosoft can take the time to borrow from FS2, or games like Starlancer, the last part that X3 lacks in (fight), would be eliminated.
Of course, this requires a very large amount of work. But it's certainly possible, and, to an extent, a non-egosoft modder can spice up combat quite a bit before such a large improvement.
Without proper spawn-equipping of destroyers, both player and NPC, large scale combat can never be complete.
. The problem with PPC's NOT being decently effective against fighters is this: I am trying to balance the combat for fighters vs NPC capital ships, not just my own. Most NPC capital ships take a weird outfit of weaponry, but I have not seen any taking real AA weapons, so I figured id just make each weapon pretty decent against fighters, but not overkill. 25 M3s killed a titan. 2 survived . I think that's pretty decent, against a fully equipped titan.Now, if NPC destroyers were setup to equip themselves accordingly during a spawn, then combat could be made a lot more interesting. That requires work from egosoft, though. The turret count allowed on a destroyer would have to be upped to allow for strategically placed flak cannons and such. Take a look at ships from Freespace 2. They did an incredible job of balancing ships and made combat incredibly fun. If egosoft can take the time to borrow from FS2, or games like Starlancer, the last part that X3 lacks in (fight), would be eliminated.
Of course, this requires a very large amount of work. But it's certainly possible, and, to an extent, a non-egosoft modder can spice up combat quite a bit before such a large improvement.
Without proper spawn-equipping of destroyers, both player and NPC, large scale combat can never be complete.
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Sandalpocalypse
- Posts: 4447
- Joined: Tue, 2. Dec 03, 22:28
Unf: My thought has been to use the Ventral and Dorsal turret slots as anti-fighter on capital ships, meaning that they wouldn't be able to use capital grade weapons and probably would use small-size turrets.
Taken to an extreme, I would modify or add a slow-firing weapon that drains no energy. Than I would sprinkle it liberally over a ship such that it can throw up a lot of anti fighter fire without being particularly deadly. THe turrets would only be able to fit that weapon or a few other anti-fighter weapons...
Then I would restrict the capital turrets to capital-grade weapons and really pump up those to be awesome.
Or something similar.
Taken to an extreme, I would modify or add a slow-firing weapon that drains no energy. Than I would sprinkle it liberally over a ship such that it can throw up a lot of anti fighter fire without being particularly deadly. THe turrets would only be able to fit that weapon or a few other anti-fighter weapons...
Then I would restrict the capital turrets to capital-grade weapons and really pump up those to be awesome.
Or something similar.
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unfunfofmpc
- Posts: 300
- Joined: Sat, 12. Nov 05, 19:37
That could be a temporary solution, sure. Maybe have the anti-fighter weapons drain a tiny tiny bit of energy, and have them have a flak-cannonish type effect, just dimmed down. I do not know much about the flak cannon though. I would think it is not very damaging against large ships. It should be pretty short range, and have a decent firerate. Sigh... if only there was a way to have turrets take priority more effectively!