Complex Calculator V3.0!!
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sneakey pete
- Posts: 303
- Joined: Sat, 14. Oct 06, 16:51
You can only achieve 100% efficiency by selling at maximum price, and it's generally impossible to do that. NPC traders won't buy at maximum because they can't make a profit, and your own traders will never go out to sell to stations unless those stations are absolutely flat out of goods--which would mean you'd probably have to destroy all competing factories for the product you're producing.
i found nividium in elenas fortune. right next to the 64 silicon asteroid. in x3. its not a complete asteroid but it ha a yield of 28. found it when i thought i would mine every asteroid in the sector so i could build a massive complex there without it affecting my frame rate too much. but the asteroids respawn. DOH!
Well, if there are no warning bells in the mind of the user, when food does not match 100% (as they all should), then one just makes the error of adding unnecessary food production. Error in the safe side.
But, bad reputation for a tool is not nice. Those who blindly believe a tool tend to blame it too.
But, bad reputation for a tool is not nice. Those who blindly believe a tool tend to blame it too.
Goner Pancake Protector X
Insanity included at no extra charge.
There is no Box. I am the sand.
Insanity included at no extra charge.
There is no Box. I am the sand.
I think I just noticed a bug. If I try to build a Space Jewellery factory it doesn't figure out the required resources properly. Instead of adding factories to provide it with Energy Cells and Maja Snails it provides it with Energy Cells and Soja Husks. The factories for Soja Husks do not go into the final output calculations, though, so it just shows the production of Majaglit, Energy Cells, and Maja Snails.
Just a quick question:
I used one of the standalone versions before I got excel and it had a rather useful, although it turned out to give the wrong answer, bit that told you what the complex needed in terms of resources to start it looping. Been searching through the 2.3 sheet and cant seem to find it anywhere.
So is it there, and if so where?
I used one of the standalone versions before I got excel and it had a rather useful, although it turned out to give the wrong answer, bit that told you what the complex needed in terms of resources to start it looping. Been searching through the 2.3 sheet and cant seem to find it anywhere.
So is it there, and if so where?
I <3 UTs 
Alienmoe "But come on. You screwed up if you're dead."
Parazac "in my case, they should change the words to:
'uh oh, you just tried something silly didnt you!'"
-Talking about "The End"
Alienmoe "But come on. You screwed up if you're dead."
Parazac "in my case, they should change the words to:
'uh oh, you just tried something silly didnt you!'"
-Talking about "The End"
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chilipalmer
- Posts: 576
- Joined: Wed, 28. Dec 05, 14:09
Its not really a bug, it just isnt programmed to add them. It only adds Bio/Food for a crystal fab and an SPP. In the same way it doesnt add mines.Gannon wrote:I think I just noticed a bug. If I try to build a Space Jewellery factory it doesn't figure out the required resources properly. Instead of adding factories to provide it with Energy Cells and Maja Snails it provides it with Energy Cells and Soja Husks. The factories for Soja Husks do not go into the final output calculations, though, so it just shows the production of Majaglit, Energy Cells, and Maja Snails.
I might add it though...
Thats a function only in the stand alone version.Just a quick question:
I used one of the standalone versions before I got excel and it had a rather useful, although it turned out to give the wrong answer, bit that told you what the complex needed in terms of resources to start it looping. Been searching through the 2.3 sheet and cant seem to find it anywhere.
So is it there, and if so where?
I have no idea, but in 2 weeks i can check what happens at my parents... Unless you can provide me with more information, you'll have to wait and hope i dont forget.i cannot get this to work with office 2007 any ideas why ?
Right, due to a fortunate chain of events i was reminded of this now i have office 2007 myself. I managed to run the macros after a search of at least 10 minutes how to activate them! I still have to get used to the UIchilipalmer wrote:i cannot get this to work with office 2007 any ideas why ?
. After i figured that out, i hadnt got any problems.So if you still have problems and accidently read this, feel free to give more information on what doesnt work for you.
If you;re having problems running the macro in Excel, it might help to download and install .net and the SP 1. Since i had no problems myself (maybe because i already have it) i cant see if this actually helps, but according to TomasArafel who pointed this out to me, it does...
He also might have an sollution for OO...
He also might have an sollution for OO...
My mind is boggling again, and it's not the first time... 
I restarted my game a while back to clear up issues while upgrading to X3 2.0. In the process, I'm reexamining the notes I made from my previous game on the complexes I was building (fortunately, I made copies of your spreadsheet with my details in them). I was using v1.15 of this sheet at the time. Now I'm playing with your v2.3 version.
But the thing is the numbers in some cases are coming up differently between the 2 versions, and neither really matches with my "understanding" of resources used/produced (namely, energy). For instance, in a shield building complex, I have all 6 shield facts (one of each, all S size), plus support facts, plus a couple extras to handle ore surplus from the mines. In all, totalling up to the equivalent of 48 S-sized factories (adding up L's, M's and S's). I have two SPPs, an L and an M, and 4 mines: a silicon L on a 43 rock, a silicon M on a 26 rock, an ore L on a 29 rock and an ore M on a 13 rock.
According to my estimates, I should have a slight surplus on ore and silicon, which is fine. But the thing that eats at me all the time is energy. My understanding is a single S-size SPP should make enough for 9 facts. I got this idea from somewhere a while back. Of course, there are no S sizes in X3, but multiples count the same (M=2x, L=5x, XL=10x). With my SPPs here, I should make enough for 63 S-size facts.
In your yield calc, my mines equal about 10.88 silicon and 6.83 ore (if to fill S sized facts). In my mind, this should also equate to a similar amount of energy used by the mines.
But if all these facts/mines count up as 48 + 10.88 + 6.83 = 65.71 S sized facts consumption of energy, why then did your v1.15 tell me I have a "surplus" of 100.63% energy production and v2.3 now tells me I have 117.45% production overflow? Shouldn't I be overRUNning not overFLOWing?
But then, I don't recall my previous complex going out for energy due to shortages, but I dismissed it for slow sales and overstock/shutdown of production on some items.
So how does the energy thing work, especially for mines (if we consider a base level S mine on a 25 rock, no multiples)?
I restarted my game a while back to clear up issues while upgrading to X3 2.0. In the process, I'm reexamining the notes I made from my previous game on the complexes I was building (fortunately, I made copies of your spreadsheet with my details in them). I was using v1.15 of this sheet at the time. Now I'm playing with your v2.3 version.
But the thing is the numbers in some cases are coming up differently between the 2 versions, and neither really matches with my "understanding" of resources used/produced (namely, energy). For instance, in a shield building complex, I have all 6 shield facts (one of each, all S size), plus support facts, plus a couple extras to handle ore surplus from the mines. In all, totalling up to the equivalent of 48 S-sized factories (adding up L's, M's and S's). I have two SPPs, an L and an M, and 4 mines: a silicon L on a 43 rock, a silicon M on a 26 rock, an ore L on a 29 rock and an ore M on a 13 rock.
According to my estimates, I should have a slight surplus on ore and silicon, which is fine. But the thing that eats at me all the time is energy. My understanding is a single S-size SPP should make enough for 9 facts. I got this idea from somewhere a while back. Of course, there are no S sizes in X3, but multiples count the same (M=2x, L=5x, XL=10x). With my SPPs here, I should make enough for 63 S-size facts.
In your yield calc, my mines equal about 10.88 silicon and 6.83 ore (if to fill S sized facts). In my mind, this should also equate to a similar amount of energy used by the mines.
But if all these facts/mines count up as 48 + 10.88 + 6.83 = 65.71 S sized facts consumption of energy, why then did your v1.15 tell me I have a "surplus" of 100.63% energy production and v2.3 now tells me I have 117.45% production overflow? Shouldn't I be overRUNning not overFLOWing?
But then, I don't recall my previous complex going out for energy due to shortages, but I dismissed it for slow sales and overstock/shutdown of production on some items.
So how does the energy thing work, especially for mines (if we consider a base level S mine on a 25 rock, no multiples)?
Ok, I did a little more number crunching and I *think* I got an idea of how you're figuring these things in here, but it takes a leap of faith or two to understand due to the uneven division of energy-out per crystal-in on the SPP's (someone needs to refresh their math -- everything else works out evenly on inputs/outputs).
My mines produce 10.88 silicon and 6.83 ore (if thinking in terms of 100% S-level factories worth of use), so theoretically, I could run that many S facts at full capacity. But I'm not. *I* work with WHOLE numbers, not fractions, so I have facts sucking 10 silicon and 6 ore (6 shield fabs, a crystal L, crystal M and 3 Qtubes). I guess the calculator is interpreting this as the mines NOT working at 100%, thus returning the surplus ore and credting back the energy I would otherwise spend making it.
If you add up the number of facts in my complex, it's now counting as 48 facts, plus the equivalent of 16 for the mines (again, thinking S-level). That's now 64 total. The SPPs make multiples of 9 per, so an L and M make up 63. However, due to an error in SOMEONE'S math (*cough* Egosoft *cough*), there is a discrepancy in the inputs/outputs of SPPs vs crystal fabs. An M fab make 120 crystals/hr, whereas an M SPP uses 122 and a fraction per hour. This screws things up a bit for the math, but running the SPP output numbers for an L + M, the energy produced is actually 65 and a fraction, enough for my whole complex (parts of which are not running at 100% anyway) plus a bit of surplus.
Is this correct?
My mines produce 10.88 silicon and 6.83 ore (if thinking in terms of 100% S-level factories worth of use), so theoretically, I could run that many S facts at full capacity. But I'm not. *I* work with WHOLE numbers, not fractions, so I have facts sucking 10 silicon and 6 ore (6 shield fabs, a crystal L, crystal M and 3 Qtubes). I guess the calculator is interpreting this as the mines NOT working at 100%, thus returning the surplus ore and credting back the energy I would otherwise spend making it.
If you add up the number of facts in my complex, it's now counting as 48 facts, plus the equivalent of 16 for the mines (again, thinking S-level). That's now 64 total. The SPPs make multiples of 9 per, so an L and M make up 63. However, due to an error in SOMEONE'S math (*cough* Egosoft *cough*), there is a discrepancy in the inputs/outputs of SPPs vs crystal fabs. An M fab make 120 crystals/hr, whereas an M SPP uses 122 and a fraction per hour. This screws things up a bit for the math, but running the SPP output numbers for an L + M, the energy produced is actually 65 and a fraction, enough for my whole complex (parts of which are not running at 100% anyway) plus a bit of surplus.
Is this correct?
Ok, I *think* I have good news and bad news... The good news is I feel one step closer to sanity again. The bad news is I lost most of my hair along the way. 
I was running another sheet, this one for a shield complex I had running in my previous game, plus a few changes to experiment with numbers.
Essentially is went a little like this. 5 shield facts and some chip fabs (to fill in for surplus silicon), plus supporting M class bio, one SPP L and support, and some roids: 43 silicon, 6 silicon, 21 ore and 18 ore, all L size. It looked ok so far and my numbers seemed to jive with the sheet.
But since I had extra ore and the low level shields tend to go fast, I added one more 1MJ, 5MJ and 25MJ, totalling 8 shield facts now. Reworking the figures and the arrangement a bit, I now had a complex with an additional SPP M and support.
The thing is the sheet wouldn't ever tell me I'm running out of energy. By the time I finished playing with it, I had something like 72 S-level fabs sucking energy out of an SPP L and M, which only gives around 65-66 (rounding fractions) AND I still had surplus showing! This was not right, so I figured there had to be a calculation error.
I counted my factories time and again, I ran my numbers on a handheld calculator, even went so far as to plop L mines on the two roids in the game (43 and 6 silicon) to see the times and yields they make, and it all came up correct with your yield calculator and the numbers in the "hidden" columns on the spreadsheet.
So I then I opened the VB editor...it had to be in there....
Now I feel a bit vindicated. I found not one, but two actual errors, one of which explained why the numbers *seemed* to be excluding my silicon mines from the energy count altogether. You made a typo in an IF statement using the wrong column reference. Instead of taking "surplus" minerals (column AR) and adding it back for an EC credit, you took the entire volume of product (column AO) multiplied by the EC per unit and subtracted for a credit. It was as though my silicon mines didn't exist.
You also missed the mark on the ore mine section looking for the "Energy Cells" entry in the output to add back the numbers for surplus there. You're looking in a column full of numbers (AK), not the names of resources (AN). This would explain why it's showing ore for sale when it's not supposed to be selling any. You may want to take a look at this.
Now I can go to sleep....I only spent the entire night pulling my hair out on this problem.
BTW, one last Q... The output shows how many "NPC S type factories needed to fill supply/demand". The number under there doesn't tell me anything about how many of my factories I need to fill the gap, because it might say 1 or 2 (S types) but I can put several M's and a couple of L's in my figures and the number barely budges.
I was running another sheet, this one for a shield complex I had running in my previous game, plus a few changes to experiment with numbers.
Essentially is went a little like this. 5 shield facts and some chip fabs (to fill in for surplus silicon), plus supporting M class bio, one SPP L and support, and some roids: 43 silicon, 6 silicon, 21 ore and 18 ore, all L size. It looked ok so far and my numbers seemed to jive with the sheet.
But since I had extra ore and the low level shields tend to go fast, I added one more 1MJ, 5MJ and 25MJ, totalling 8 shield facts now. Reworking the figures and the arrangement a bit, I now had a complex with an additional SPP M and support.
The thing is the sheet wouldn't ever tell me I'm running out of energy. By the time I finished playing with it, I had something like 72 S-level fabs sucking energy out of an SPP L and M, which only gives around 65-66 (rounding fractions) AND I still had surplus showing! This was not right, so I figured there had to be a calculation error.
I counted my factories time and again, I ran my numbers on a handheld calculator, even went so far as to plop L mines on the two roids in the game (43 and 6 silicon) to see the times and yields they make, and it all came up correct with your yield calculator and the numbers in the "hidden" columns on the spreadsheet.
So I then I opened the VB editor...it had to be in there....
Now I feel a bit vindicated. I found not one, but two actual errors, one of which explained why the numbers *seemed* to be excluding my silicon mines from the energy count altogether. You made a typo in an IF statement using the wrong column reference. Instead of taking "surplus" minerals (column AR) and adding it back for an EC credit, you took the entire volume of product (column AO) multiplied by the EC per unit and subtracted for a credit. It was as though my silicon mines didn't exist.
You also missed the mark on the ore mine section looking for the "Energy Cells" entry in the output to add back the numbers for surplus there. You're looking in a column full of numbers (AK), not the names of resources (AN). This would explain why it's showing ore for sale when it's not supposed to be selling any. You may want to take a look at this.
Now I can go to sleep....I only spent the entire night pulling my hair out on this problem.
BTW, one last Q... The output shows how many "NPC S type factories needed to fill supply/demand". The number under there doesn't tell me anything about how many of my factories I need to fill the gap, because it might say 1 or 2 (S types) but I can put several M's and a couple of L's in my figures and the number barely budges.