A real VR experience needs interactive controls instead of menues

[KMD]

X-Rebirth came up with a one ship concept and introduced the Albion Skunk as a legend. This ship is the core of the game and so it must be the core of a VR experience.

Mapping buttons on a controller and use a pointer to click on overlay menues is not VR. Forget about this desktop/gamepad/mouse behavior. Think VR!

We are sitting in a cockpit with motion controllers. Let us reach out or even stand up and touch buttons with our hands and grab and pull levers! Let us really feel and explore this legendary ship!

Please forget those annoying minigames and let us naturally interact with NPCs. There are different races with different behavior in the X-universe. So let them react differently on physical actions. Maybe some like it to be touched somewhere and give to a discount if you do it good but others would kill you for doing the same. Make players get down on their knees and kiss the balls of a Teladi to get that engine upgrade half price!

VR is all about immersion and VR is much more than just a 3D camera on any previous game.

Imagine an engine fire in VR. You hear the impact, you look out of the left window and see the flames on your wing, you hear the alert and you see the red lamp blinking on a panel above you, illuminating half of your cockpit. You must stand up to reach the lever of the fire extinguisher and pull it. But then the next shot hits your cockpit and you must grab the extinguisher under your seat to get the flames on your console under control. You would sweat and feel the heat. That's real VR in a space ship!

Walking down corridors using buttons on a motion controller to jump and crawl is not VR (and makes many players more motion sick than flying a ship with natural gestures). Real VR needs smaller rooms, but rooms where every object is interactive. If something is high above, then stand up, jump and grab it. If a secret door is low on the floor then go and lay down on your floor.

Real VR requires real movements and therefore more time than needed to click a gamepad button. You must slow down the gameplay for users who decide to play with real controls instead of a gamepad, but it would be a much greater experience to really be on that ship and solve real problems instead of walking down corridors and playing stupid minigames.

Please take this opportunity and make X-Rebirth VR a real VR experience in a legendary space ship!

[KMD]

No reply yet? Maybe Egosoft hates me for posting basic questions in this late development state or they are already discussing political correct behavior with the Teladi

I try to help you with easy solutions:

Assigning already visible cockpit buttons with functions, would add lot of immersion, solve problems of controller mapping and should be an easy task.

To make cockpit buttons blink in 3D and to add moving switches and levers, could be the next step, but after that, it's just copy and paste to create a fully interactive cockpit.

I read many discussions about the best input device. Some prefer HOTAS, others rely on gamepads and some would rather play with keyboard and mouse because all other devices have too few keys for all functions you need. An interactive cockpit in VR solves all those problems and nobody needs to buy other devices than the VR motion controllers, we already got.

The rest of my suggestions are just an opportunity, if Egosoft really wants to impress with a really good VR game after all the horrible ratings of XR. Maybe you should look at the discussions about Fallout 4 VR from Bethesda. They also announced to add VR to a huge existing game world, but they're working on it for a very long time, because they know that a good interface with intuitive and natural movements is the key factor for VR.

Maybe some of my suggestions are too late for XR and could only realized in X4, but XR is the one ship concept and the perfect basis for a great VR experience.

[X2-Illuminatus]

Please have a little patience. It's only been two hours, since you created your initial post. Certainly not a timeframe to be worried about no one reading or replying to your post.

As a personal opinion, while I understand your ideas and agree that these would certainly help to increase the immersion, I don't think there are as easy to implement as you may think. Especially, if you want to do it right. Thus, chances of them finding their way into XR VR are rather low, which of course doesn't have to mean, that they will never find their way into an X game.

[KMD]

Sorry guys, take your time and enjoy your lunch in Germany!

The current state of this game is "Early Access" and it's written on the shop page that the improvement of the VR experience is a main target of development, so I really hope they find the time to add some click-sensitive areas, which is really not a big deal and improves a lot.

If I had to rate the game at the current state, I would say that it's just a nice VR extension worth the common price of a DLC but not a full VR game. I already paid for X2, X3, XR and some addons and now I downloaded XR VR for a full price and expect a fully functional interface and not just a 2D-Popup in a non-interactive 3D world.

I believe that XR VR has the potential to become the best VR space game, but not with the current interface.

[dertien]

DCS world in space floats my boat as well, but how will the PSVR users embrace this if the decision is ever made to port XRVR to (VR) consoles.

Being a PC gamer myself, I'm not really worried about such trivial things, but Ego might, since this is still a commercial product and one can not live off morning dew and fresh air alone.

I wonder about getting a double discount also because I own both the X-Rebirth GOG and the X-Rebirth Steam version.

Why? you may ask...

Because the Steam version was updated long before GOG and I simply couldn't be bothered to wait for the GOG update for trackIR

EDIT while I do embrace a number of your points. Flying feels natural when done with a HOTAS - no matter if it's a VR game or a game played on monitor. No VR controller will ever replace a good flight stick because this is the method that is used in real life as well.

Same as a physical steering wheel will never as good as a virtual controller - as long as real cars have steering wheels and Google doesn't get its say on self-driving cars. I agree completely with you that interaction with the ship systems should be done in the best case scenario with a VR glove. 5 years from now people will look at the VIVE wands and the Oculus touch like we look at archaic cordless telephones now with smartphones being the norm - they are just an intermediate solution while something as natural as your own hand being represented in-game comes along.

[birdtable]

The advantage in VR with either HOTAS or steering wheel is that you get physical feedback to hand movements, there is no physical sensation when using virtual wheel/joystick.... It would feel strange ( I imagine ) to have your hands suspended (VR glove) in the air gesturing steering but not for button pressing.

[KMD]

dertien, you name it! DCS features super detailled cockpits and all those hundred switches are working. Imagine that with X-Rebirth. Wouldn't that be the greatest space simulation this side of the galaxy?

And it wouldn't even be limited to VR. Clickable Cockpits also work with keyboard and mouse and Track-IR. And it's much easier when all players can use the same interface buttons. Nobody would need to spend hours trying to find the best configuration of a HOTAS* with 30 buttons, that you cannot see with your headset on.

Remember that the main menu of XRVR is a relict of X3. They just pasted it on a flat layer in front of the players face. Just paste it on a screen at the sidewall of the ship or into the console screen and you have the first step for an interactive cockpit. Don't tell me that editing the position of a 3d layer takes more than 30 minutes programming.

*Yes, I like to fly an airplane with a good flight stick and I did it all time in X2 and X3. The down side in XR was that strafing with a gamepad was much more effective in battles than flying turns like in a jet. However I hate fumbling on gamepads. The downside on a HOTAS in VR is that you can't see it. And there are always too few buttons for all functions. Flying with gestures feels great in XRVR and is a nice new concept. Gloves would be best, but the VIVE controllers already work fine to handle 3d objects.

[rp198419]

The advantage in VR with either HOTAS or steering wheel is that you get physical feedback to hand movements, there is no physical sensation when using virtual wheel/joystick.... It would feel strange ( I imagine ) to have your hands suspended (VR glove) in the air gesturing steering but not for button pressing.

This is correct, which is why - although visually stunning - Elite Dangerous also uses menus...lots of them. In fact, ED doesn't use Touch/Vive controllers at all. It's KB/Mouse. HOTAS or X Box controller and that's it.

The implementation of VR controllers as suggested by the OP, although a nice thought, would require a complete redesign of what is essentially a cockpit backdrop. Every control to be used would require haptic feedback and a touch zone for implementation of the kind suggested.

[KMD]

I don't know the Vulcan Engine but I programmed other games. It cannot be that complicated. You must design and script one cockpit switch and then you can copy and paste it all over the cockpit. Change some lable tags, bind the functions that are already in the game and you're done.

Well, if players then ask for a haptic feedback of Yisha, it may take some more lines of code...

[KMD]

Do you guys know "Far beyond, a space odyssey"?
It's less than $10 and you can fully interact with a space ship in VR and even disassemble and repair parts with your screw driver.
Combine this depth of a VR interface with the depth of the X-Universe and you have the greatest space sim you can imagine.

[dertien]

snip... DCS features super detailled cockpits ...Wouldn't that be the greatest space simulation...

Absolutely, here, take my money!

Clickable Cockpits also work ... No need to spend hours trying to find the best configuration of a HOTAS* with 30 buttons....

I operate all DCS switches with 4 buttons on the hotas. Given that you have more than 200 switches in the MI-8, its quite well done.

The downside on a HOTAS in VR is that you can't see it.

It's not required to see it, it should be muscle memory.

For example in ED VR and in this Game, I fly Flight Assist off. While it may be hard to master in Elite Dangerous and indeed take a few weeks to nail it, in XRVR, this takes about 5 to 10 minutes.

I'm on CH products, but I'm sure there are alternatives on Saitek and the like.

Strafe left and right can be set to 2 separate buttons activated by your ring finger(strafe left) and your middle finger(strafe right) on the throttle.
strafe up and down set to 2 buttons activated by your index finger also on the throttle.

The thumbstick controls roll left or right (analog) and the stick does the rest. Also I try to set XRVR up as much as ED so I don't have to unlearn what I have learned.

[KMD]

I still have my X-52 and if I keep XRVR, I will maybe once give it a try.

But let's talk about money. Egosoft wants to publish a game that anyone can play. XRVR means anyone who owns a VR headset. Most of them don't own a HOTAS for $300 and don't want to spend three hours to find out the right mapping.

If they make it intuitive and fun to play with VR motion controllers, without extensive use of immersion breaking 2D menues, most players would be happy. HOTAS support is for the pros who play it every day and remember every button, but the game already has that support.

(I tried DCS with HOTAS and VR and I often couln't find the right button in stressful situations or I had to take off the headset to look for my keyboard, which is as immersion breaking as using the mouse)

[dertien]

I tried with the VIVE wands - and was fighting with the controls more than anything else - to each his own. If they would implement the HMD pointer (not the Touch or the Wand pointers) I'd be a happy camper. A bit like IHADSS in combat helicopters.

Not all HOTAS are expensive; also looking at the poll 'hotas vs wireless controls' elsewhere on the forum here, its clear that HOTAS is not the exotic odd apple in the bunch.

In DCS you can natively map mouse buttons and the wheel to buttons on the HOTAS in order to not need the mouse. Flipping switches is done by pointing the center cursor present in DCS on a switch in the cockpit, when the cursor turns from blue to green you press the mousebutton assigned on the HOTAS or the one assigned to the mousewheel if you need to turn dials in the cockpit.

It's that intuitve and simple. - No need to look at keyboard, no need for mouse, I can even create missions in the mission editor without using the mouse. All I need to know is where to find the 4 buttons on the hat that replicate the mouse buttons.

[KMD]

I tried with the VIVE wands - and was fighting with the controls more than anything else - to each his own. If they would implement the HMD pointer

Why fighting? My VIVE wands are quite precise. Just that you often must lift your hand up to point on a menu button right in front of your nose.

HMD pointer could be a good idea to control a switch but I already have problems to point it on an enemy because this tiny white pixel is almost invisible in front of a sky full of white stars. I would be happy if they could change the look of the HMD into cross hairs as soon as enemies are around.

Another problem for new players is the use of the right button. I often wanted to click on something and by mistake used the fire button.

A way to prevent this are visible marks on the controller skins that remember you the functions of the buttons or visualize the position on the touchpad.

[KMD]

Summary for interactive cockpit controls:

- cockpit buttons would increase the immersion
- you see what you click
- 2d overlay menus were obsolete
- controller or flightstick buttons were free for most important flight functions
- function switches could be grouped (nav., comm., trade,...) and labelled for intuitive usage
- no need to remember tons of command mappings
- cockpit buttons could be selected and operated by HMD or by pointer/wand
- modders could assign functions to unused buttons

There is no need for any player to change his way to fly.
All functions of cockpit buttons could still be bound to gamepad/HOTAS as used before VR, but the game would no longer be limited to the number of controller buttons.

Flight modes and easy controller configuration:
I suggest a switch for different flight modes:

- ATTACK MODE: Enemies on screen, weapons armed, HMD with cross hair, other cockpit buttons disabled. Automatic on when attacked.
- CRUISE MODE: Weapons disabled, HMD operates cockpit buttons.
- HELP MODE: HMD shows tool tips for every cockpit object you look at.
- CONTROLLER CONFIG MODE: just look at any cockpit switch and push a controller button to assign the function to it.

I hope, you guys like and support the idea.

[Boeng01]

Summary for interactive cockpit controls:

- cockpit buttons would increase the immersion
- you see what you click
- 2d overlay menus were obsolete
- controller or flightstick buttons were free for most important flight functions
- function switches could be grouped (nav., comm., trade,...) and labelled for intuitive usage
- no need to remember tons of command mappings
- cockpit buttons could be selected and operated by HMD or by pointer/wand
- modders could assign functions to unused buttons

There is no need for any player to change his way to fly.
All functions of cockpit buttons could still be bound to gamepad/HOTAS as used before VR, but the game would no longer be limited to the number of controller buttons.

Flight modes and easy controller configuration:
I suggest a switch for different flight modes:

- ATTACK MODE: Enemies on screen, weapons armed, HMD with cross hair, other cockpit buttons disabled. Automatic on when attacked.
- CRUISE MODE: Weapons disabled, HMD operates cockpit buttons.
- HELP MODE: HMD shows tool tips for every cockpit object you look at.
- CONTROLLER CONFIG MODE: just look at any cockpit switch and push a controller button to assign the function to it.

I hope, you guys like and support the idea.

At least I do ... great summary of highly needed control options to make this game a really great VR experience.

[garybrain]

Its easy to compare games but I agree where the OP is coming from.

The visual experience is the 1st step; get this right and you are on your way and XRVR is that.

The second is the interface, using menus like ED is limited and starts to take away the immersion that the visual gives to the player.

If we take Star Trek it has the visual ( limited and not as good ) but the input makes it, using your hands to control all the aspects of the ship nails its. But it lacks content.

XRVR i have to say nailed the controls, took a while of but with the oculus touch flying was a breeze, but going back to the menus again broke the experience.

All in all a great addition to my VR games, and does sit at the top 5 games, add the interaction as the OP pointed out and It could contend for the top spot.

G.

[rp198419]

Great idea...but would take a lot of dev time I suspect and come up against the time/cost ratio problem.

Still, you never know...

[garybrain]

If you look at it already, using the controller you point at a menu option ( right panel ) it knows the distance from the controller as its highlights the button.

So all that is needed is for the code to say is the controller 0 or minus X to the button and auto click. just as if you click like A button.

But who are we too know how really complicated it is.

[KMD]

Of course, designing a cockpit with clickable buttons is more work to do than just copying the already existing crappy user interface from XR.

As the devs do not answer this thread, I must assume they are not interested in creating a real VR experience. They only wanted to sell a cheap 3D-extension for a higher price under a new name instead of calling it a DLC. Regarding that at the current state XRVR is not much more than a 3D camera and a new story to XR, the price for Early Access is far too high for those who already bought XR, and the game is too user unfriendly for new VR gamers that are not familiar with the confusing menu system of XR.

I paid $35 for this and must say, the game could be worth the price if they add the missing VR functionality before launch. But if not, I must give it thumbs down. Sorry.